Empathy vs Sympathy: Unlocking Resilience & Connection in Endurance Sports

Unknown Speaker

Hello Team and welcome to The MindFit Athlete Podcast.

Unknown Speaker

This is the podcast exploring the intersection of endurance sport and the science of a flourishing life.

Unknown Speaker

I’m John...

Scott Lewis

I’m Scott.

Emily Carter

And I’m Emily.

Unknown Speaker

In these podcasts we hope to inspire busy people—people just like you.

Unknown Speaker

To weave the core sports of triathlon into a life that's not just healthier, but happier and more fulfilled. Ok...

Unknown Speaker

So, Emily and Scott we often start these conversations by talking about a race or a training principle. But today, I want to start somewhere a little different.

Unknown Speaker

We've recently had the news of the tragic shooting of the American conservative commentator Charlie Kirk. and I heard an audio clip from where he said something that, I must admit, stopped me in my tracks.

Unknown Speaker

Emily, you will be much closer to this than me ... and actually I didn't really know much about Charlie Kirk. But with your permission, I’d like to read it.

Emily Carter

Go for it, John. I'm intrigued.

Unknown Speaker

He said... and I quote:

Unknown Speaker

"I can't stand empathy, actually. I think empathy is a made-up, new-age term that does a lot of damage, but it is very effective when it comes to politics. Sympathy I prefer more than empathy.”

Scott Lewis

Wow. Okay. That’s quite a statement.

Unknown Speaker

It sure is.

Unknown Speaker

Now, I don't want to stray into the politics of Charlie Kirk and of course I abhor his shooting.

Unknown Speaker

Whatever your politics you have to say that in our modern world Charlie Kirk was a hugely successful communicator. And it's obvious that he's been highly influential and has had friends in very high places.

Unknown Speaker

The quote though was really interesting.

Unknown Speaker

For a start he's absolutely right about the "made up word."

Unknown Speaker

The word "Empathy" did not come directly into use from Ancient Greek. But it certainly isn't New Age.

Unknown Speaker

The word "empathy" was coined in 1909 by the British psychologist Edward Titchener as a translation of a German word meaning "feeling into." Titchener deliberately used the Greek roots to create a new English term for this specific psychological concept of projecting one's own feelings into an object or another person.

Unknown Speaker

And that got me thinking about those two words: sympathy and empathy. We often use them almost interchangeably, but are they the same? And is one really preferable to the other?

Emily Carter

Oh, they are so, so different. And I have to be "straight up" on this.

Emily Carter

For me, there is just no way, I mean no way, that sympathy is better. I think Charlie Kirk could not have been more wrong on that.

Emily Carter

I think of it like this. Imagine you come across a road accident. The car is on its side, and someone is clearly injured.

Emily Carter

If you have only sympathy, you sit in your car. You look over, and you feel that pit in your stomach. You think, "Oh, that poor person! How terrible!" You feel their pain, but you are completely paralysed by it. You’re stuck in inaction.

Unknown Speaker

Right, you're a spectator to the tragedy. Almost like you're viewing it on TV... detached from a distance.

Unknown Speaker

And that's what's so interesting about the root of the word sympathy. It really was an ancient Greek word and has been in the English language for more than 400 years. But it means "feels WITH"

Unknown Speaker

In other words you are as one with the person in the accident. You feel their pain and WITH that feeling you experience the same distress and powerlessness.

Emily Carter

Exactly!

Emily Carter

Sympathy means you are affected by their situation. You see their pain and distress, and it triggers your own feelings of sadness, pity, and concern.

Emily Carter

If you feel their powerlessness too deeply, you can become overwhelmed by your own emotions, making it harder to act effectively.

Emily Carter

But if you have empathy… you feel that same initial connection, but then you immediately ask, "What's needed here?"

Emily Carter

You put yourself in their shoes, and you realise what they need most isn't someone feeling sad for them. What they need is an ambulance.

Emily Carter

So you pick up the phone and you call for help. That’s the difference. One is passive feeling; the other is compassionate action.

Scott Lewis

Emily, that is a brilliant way to frame it. You’ve just described, almost perfectly, the difference between a brain hijacked by its survival instincts and a brain operating from its calm, clear-headed centre.

Scott Lewis

It seems to me you’ve defined empathy as a two-step process: Heart, which is the emotional connection, plus Mind, which is the clear-headed question, "What's needed?"

Unknown Speaker

So, sympathy is just the Heart part, without the Mind kicking in?

Scott Lewis

Precisely. In the Positive Intelligence framework, we’d call that a Saboteur hijack.

Unknown Speaker

That's really counter-intuitive.

Unknown Speaker

You're suggesting that sympathy is somehow associated with a more negative mindset?

Scott Lewis

Yes, but hear me out. There's a very specific cue happening here. In sympathy there is an initial feeling of compassion towards the injured person in Emily's accident. That compassion is definitely Sage - the part of you that cares.

Scott Lewis

I think that's the aspect of sympathy that we focus on which makes it feel valuable and positive.

Scott Lewis

But then, in the sympathy-only response, your Saboteurs rush in instantly taking over. The compassion is replaced.

Scott Lewis

The tell-tale cue here is that we "make it all about me."

Scott Lewis

Your Victim saboteur might scream, "Oh, this is awful! I feel so overwhelmed, there's nothing I can do!" And that leads to that emotional paralysis Emily described.

Emily Carter

Or you just want to get away from it - escape the scene?

Scott Lewis

That’s your Avoider saboteur saying, "This is too messy. I don't want to get involved." The result is the same: you’re trapped in the negative, distressing emotion, and you take no helpful action.

Unknown Speaker

So true empathy, in this model, is when the Mind part comes online to guide the Heart.

Scott Lewis

Yes, but it’s more than just two steps. It’s a seamless activation of all five of our Sage powers, our positive mental muscles.

Scott Lewis

It starts with Empathize. That’s the heart connection. You feel compassion for the injured person.

Scott Lewis

But then, almost instantly, you use Self-Command. This is the crucial pause. It’s the mental muscle we build with PQ Reps, those little mindfulness exercises. It’s the moment of calm that stops the Saboteurs from hijacking you and allows your clear mind to engage.

Unknown Speaker

That precious "space between stimulus and response"?

Scott Lewis

Exactly.

Scott Lewis

And in that space, you Explore. You get curious. You ask "What's most important here?" You gather facts instead of being overwhelmed by drama. "Is the car on fire? Is anyone else helping? Are other vehicles going to be at risk?"

Scott Lewis

Notice what's different here.

Scott Lewis

It's not about you - it's about others.

Scott Lewis

Then you Innovate and Navigate. You brainstorm options. "I can call 9 9 9.

Scott Lewis

I can check my first-aid kit. I can wave down other cars."

Scott Lewis

And finally, you Activate. You take that decisive, laser-focused action. You ask yourself Emily's question : "What's needed right now?

Scott Lewis

Or "What's the most useful action I can take?"

Scott Lewis

You call the ambulance.

Scott Lewis

It’s an action born from calm assessment, not panic.

Emily Carter

And you see this in sport all the time.

Emily Carter

Imagine your training partner starts to bonk during a long ride.

Emily Carter

The sympathy response is, "Oh, that feels terrible, I hate it when that happens. You must feel horrible", "This is a disaster! Our whole day is ruined. I feel so bad for you."

Emily Carter

You both get anxious and frustrated, and your performance suffers. You’re stuck in THEIR problem.

Emily Carter

The empathy response is different. You feel compassion for their struggle. You stay calm. You get curious: "What do they need right now?" You realise you have a spare gel. You say, "Hey, let's ease up. Sit on my wheel, take this gel, and let's get you home."

Emily Carter

With empathy you’ve moved from being a paralysed spectator of the problem to an active part of the solution.

Scott Lewis

You know, this conversation makes it impossible not to think of the work of Dr. Brené Brown.

Scott Lewis

She has done so much to bring these ideas into the mainstream.

Unknown Speaker

She’s the one who talks about vulnerability, right?

Scott Lewis

She is, and her work on empathy is foundational.

Scott Lewis

Now, I know I'm at risk of this being confusing but I think I'll take the chance.

Scott Lewis

Brené offers her own functional definition of sympathy and empathy that actually challenges the classical meaning of the words.

Scott Lewis

She frames the difference as sympathy being 'feeling FOR' people, while empathy is 'feeling WITH' them.

Scott Lewis

She then goes on to argue that sympathy generates disconnection while only empathy builds connection.

Scott Lewis

From a strict, linguistic point of view, you could argue she has it backwards.

Scott Lewis

For Brené Brown empathy isn't about passive co-suffering. It's about active solidarity.

Scott Lewis

It means choosing to be present with someone in their struggle.

Scott Lewis

It means you communicate: "I am here with you.... you are NOT alone"

Emily Carter

I love that.

Emily Carter

So by defining Empathy as "feeling WITH" she's taking the phrase and elevating it from a passive state to a conscious, connecting choice.

Scott Lewis

Precisely. It becomes the bedrock of true connection, not disconnection.

Scott Lewis

Here's her famous analogy for this.

Scott Lewis

Imagine seeing someone stuck in a deep, dark hole...

Scott Lewis

Sympathy is standing at the top of the hole, looking down, and shouting,

Scott Lewis

"Ooh poor you,

Scott Lewis

....it's bad down there, huh?

Scott Lewis

How about a sandwich ... would that help?"

Scott Lewis

You're acknowledging their pain from a safe distance. It's all distant pity. You might even try to silver-line it:

Scott Lewis

"Well, at least you didn't break a bone!"

Scott Lewis

Notice how this is a way to keep yourself separate from their messy struggle?

Scott Lewis

It's helping YOU not helping them.

Unknown Speaker

Just as we said earlier sympathy is more about me than you.

Unknown Speaker

Whereas with empathy… well, you have to get your hands dirty?

Scott Lewis

Yes.

Scott Lewis

Empathy is the brave choice to climb down into the hole with them, look around, and say, "I know what it's like down here. And you're not alone."

Scott Lewis

It's a courageous act.

Scott Lewis

It requires vulnerability because you have to touch a piece of that same pain within yourself to connect with the other person. You’re simply communicating that profound message: "You are not alone."

Emily Carter

And that is everything. For me that is true leadership.

Emily Carter

Think about a teammate who misses the winning shot or has a terrible race.

Emily Carter

The sympathy response is the platitude from the top of the hole: "Ah, tough luck. You'll get 'em next time."

Emily Carter

I'm sure you have had that said to you?

Emily Carter

Just how did it feel?

Emily Carter

If you are anything like me.... "you'll get them next time" is shallow, empty and it creates distance between us.

Emily Carter

It makes me feel even more isolated in my disappointment.

Unknown Speaker

So, what would be the empathy response?

Emily Carter

You walk over, you sit next to them, and maybe you say nothing for a minute. Then you just say, "That's a tough one. I'm gutted for you."

Emily Carter

Notice that for Brené empathy is not in a rush to fix things. It's spacious and always non-judgemental.

Emily Carter

You are simply climbing into that hole of disappointment with them. That builds unbreakable bonds.

Scott Lewis

And some of you might think of this as passive but it's not. It's very conscious, it's deliberate, it's mindful and it's heart and brain working together.

Scott Lewis

You are still thinking "what's needed here" but in this case what's needed is space.

Unknown Speaker

So lets explore a "Real world" application of empathy as we discussed it so far.

Unknown Speaker

Just how should a coach handle that critical moment right after an athlete has poured their heart out on the course?

Emily Carter

John, that is the most important moment in the entire coaching relationship. And the common instinct—to immediately analyse—is the absolute worst thing you can do.

Emily Carter

There’s a framework, which is used by top psychologists at places like British Triathlon, that I've always followed instinctively.

Emily Carter

It’s a three-phase process, and the rule for that first phase, in the hours right after the finish line, is simple: Connection, not correction.

Emily Carter

The athlete is in a volatile hormonal and emotional state. Euphoria, devastation... it's all there. My job is to be a calm, supportive presence, and nothing more. I'm there to listen, not to talk.

Scott Lewis

So you're not giving any feedback at all?

Scott Lewis

My instinct would be to say something quite specific like: "Did you see your swim time - that was stunning!"

Emily Carter

Nope. Any attempt at analysis, positive or negative, will be filtered through that raw emotional lens and it won't land. It can even feel invalidating.

Emily Carter

The only thing to say is, "That was an incredible effort. I am so proud of you. Whatever you're feeling is okay."

Emily Carter

You have to show them you care about the person first, their performance second.

Scott Lewis

Emily, what you're describing is pure Brené Brown. That is the literal act of climbing into that messy, emotional hole with the athlete instead of shouting analysis from the top. It’s the ultimate act of connection.

Emily Carter

That's exactly it. Because only after you've made that connection can you move to Phase Two, which happens a day or two later.

Emily Carter

That’s when you have the first conversation.

Emily Carter

The goal here is just to gather their story. I'll use open-ended questions like, "When you're ready, I'd love to hear how the day unfolded for you."

Emily Carter

I'm just an active listener, taking notes on their experience—the stomach issues, the negative self-talk, the unexpected energy surge. Those are the golden nuggets.

Unknown Speaker

So, at this stage, you’re capturing their subjective truth before you bring in any of the objective data?

Emily Carter

Precisely. Because that data means nothing without their story. Which brings us to Phase Three, about a week later, when the emotional dust has settled. This is the true analytical debrief.

Emily Carter

Now, we sit down together with the power files, the heart rate data, the splits. And we weave it into the story they told me. I can say, "You mentioned feeling flat on the bike here... and I see in the data your heart rate was dropping. Let's explore that."

Emily Carter

We identify the key learnings together, and then, most importantly, we close the book on that race and start looking forward.

Scott Lewis

It's a perfect Sage-powered process. You start with pure Empathize at the finish line.

Scott Lewis

Then you Explore their story. And only then, once that foundation of trust is solid, can you effectively Innovate and Activate a plan for the future.

Scott Lewis

You absolutely cannot skip the first steps.

Emily Carter

You can't. Because when you follow that process, you build unbreakable trust. And you ensure that every single race, no matter the result, becomes a powerful lesson that makes you a stronger, smarter athlete. Nothing is ever wasted.

Unknown Speaker

So, given all of what we've discussed. I just cannot see how Charlie Kirk could possibly have concluded that sympathy is preferable to empathy.

Unknown Speaker

I'm really at a loss.

Unknown Speaker

Let me bring up a fascinating dynamic of all this in coaching.

Unknown Speaker

A coach can't JUST climb into the hole and endlessly stay there with the athlete, can they?

Unknown Speaker

There has to be some point where "what's needed next" is a movement forward?

Emily Carter

John, you've just hit on the most critical distinction in effective coaching. You’re absolutely right.

Emily Carter

So often, a new client comes to me with a painful story.

Emily Carter

"I always choke under pressure," or "I'm just not mentally tough enough." And they believe that story. It feels 100% true to them.

Emily Carter

A coach who practices sympathy, who stays in the hole, essentially believes the story, too. They co-collude with the athlete's Saboteurs. They say, "You're right, it's so tough, the pressure is just too much." And all that does is reinforce the negative pattern. They both get stuck in the hole.

Scott Lewis

They’re validating the Saboteur's script.

Emily Carter

Exactly! But a great coach, someone like Steve Chandler, taught me to make a pivot. He would actively listen, acknowledge, clarify and then he would ask the most powerful question:

Emily Carter

"Given that this is where we find ourselves... what do you want to create?"

Scott Lewis

Ah, that’s a beautiful shift.

Emily Carter

It’s everything! That one question bypasses the entire drama of the Saboteur story.

Emily Carter

It accepts the present moment without judgment—"this is where we find ourselves"—and immediately focuses the brain on the future, on creation, on possibility. It presumes the athlete is powerful and at choice, not a victim of their story.

Scott Lewis

And from a PQ perspective, that question is pure Sage. It starts by accepting the "what is"—and then immediately engages Navigate or Innovate. It’s a masterful re-direct from the problem-focused survival brain to our purpose-linked and creative Sage brain.

Emily Carter

Yes! And the founder of the Life Coach School, Brooke Castillo, uses the perfect analogy. She imagines her client is struggling in a swimming pool, panicking. Surrounded by alligators or piranhas or whatever.

Emily Carter

A well-meaning friend practicing SYMPATHY will jump into the pool with them!

Unknown Speaker

While the effective coach applying EMPATHY stays on the deck.

Emily Carter

Right, John. The coach is the lifeguard on the deck.

Emily Carter

They stay poolside, holding a higher, calmer perspective. They don't see a helpless victim. They see a person who is naturally creative, resourceful, and whole, who has just momentarily forgotten how to swim.

Emily Carter

Their job is to remind the swimmer of their own power.

Scott Lewis

So, the lifeguard doesn’t ignore the struggle. They have to connect first.

Emily Carter

That's the crucial first step. The masterful coaching sequence is:

Emily Carter

First, you Empathize. You climb into the hole for just a moment to say, "I see you. You're not alone." You might say, "I hear you. That sounds incredibly frustrating." You validate the feeling, but not the Saboteur story.

Emily Carter

Then, once that connection is made, you pivot. You stay on the deck and ask that Steve Chandler question: "I get that it feels that way. And… given this situation, what do you want to create?"

Emily Carter

You honour the person's feeling without buying into their limiting story. That’s the move that shifts someone from being a prisoner of their past to the author of their future.

Unknown Speaker

So let's circle back to where we started. I’m going to re-read this quote from Charlie Kirk again, now that we have this deeper understanding.

Unknown Speaker

"I can't stand empathy, actually. I think empathy is a made-up, new-age term that does a lot of damage... Sympathy I prefer more than empathy.”

Emily Carter

Hearing it now, it’s just so… sad. It’s a worldview built on a foundation of fear.

Emily Carter

From our conversation today, it's clear. Sympathy is shallow. It's self-oriented—it’s about me not wanting to feel your messy feelings. It’s fear-based.

Emily Carter

Empathy is deeper. It's connecting. It’s outward-reaching. It is, at its core, an act of love.

Unknown Speaker

And Emily I'd further add ... that Scott's inclusion of Brené Brown's work suggests that sympathy actually promotes separation while empathy creates the conditions of connection. I mean ...who would seriously offer that our world needs even MORE separation?

Unknown Speaker

He's obviously an intelligent and capable man so I wonder if his justification is that empathy is SO powerful it can be used to manipulate people, particularly in politics.

Unknown Speaker

I mean, in that respect he's got a point hasn't he?

Scott Lewis

No, I don't think so.

Scott Lewis

For me, there's a fundamental flaw in his logic. He is confusing genuine empathy with its counterfeit version.

Emily Carter

True Empathy is a Sage power. Its goal is pure understanding and connection.

Emily Carter

What he’s describing—using the language of connection for personal gain—isn’t empathy at all.

Scott Lewis

Right. That's manipulation - plain & simple.

Scott Lewis

In fact it’s a Saboteur tactic.

Scott Lewis

A Hyper-Achiever or Controller saboteur might mimic the language of empathy to win a vote or close a deal. But the moment that other person is no longer useful, the fake empathy vanishes.

Unknown Speaker

So it's as if Mr Kirk is seeing counterfeit money and from that observation he's declaring ALL currency to be worthless?

Scott Lewis

Exactly. And with that lens, his entire statement becomes a perfect expression of a Saboteur-driven mindset.

Scott Lewis

When he says, "I can't stand empathy," that suggests to me the raw voices of his Controller and Avoider saboteurs. They are terrified of the vulnerability Brené Brown talks about.

Scott Lewis

They see someone in that dark 'hole' of messy, unpredictable emotion, and their primary instinct is to stay safely at the top, not to climb down. They fear losing control and getting trapped in that vulnerability.

Scott Lewis

Then, calling it a "made-up, new-age term that does damage"—that’s a classic tactic of the Judge saboteur. It dismisses and belittles a concept it finds threatening to invalidate it.

Scott Lewis

And finally, his preference for sympathy? That is the Saboteurs' choice every single time.

Scott Lewis

It's the safe, distant, self-protective act of shouting a few platitudes from the top of the hole before walking away.

Scott Lewis

It allows for the appearance of caring without any of the perceived risk of genuine connection.

Emily Carter

It makes me think of something the author Stephen Covey wrote. He said that "love is a verb".

Emily Carter

It isn't just a passive feeling that happens to you. It's an active choice. It's something you do.

Emily Carter

Love takes action. It moves things forward.

Emily Carter

And when I listen to our conversation, that’s exactly what we’re saying empathy is. It’s love as a verb.

Emily Carter

It feels a genuine connection, refuses to be diminished by the situation and then it asks, "What action is needed here?"

Unknown Speaker

Whereas sympathy, It’s just the feeling, without the action that follows.

Emily Carter

Exactly! It’s passive. It's a state of being, not an act of doing.

Unknown Speaker

That’s a powerful way to frame it.

Unknown Speaker

So, sympathy is being a spectator to someone's struggle, while empathy is choosing to be a participant in their solution.

Scott Lewis

And that is the fundamental difference between a life run by your Saboteurs and a life led by your Sage.

Scott Lewis

The Saboteurs are passive spectators, trapped in the drama of negative feelings.

Scott Lewis

The Sage is the active participant. It takes that initial feeling of connection—that love—and uses it to fuel wise and decisive action.

Unknown Speaker

This seems a perfect time for our intermission. This is a little more reflective than usual but it still manages to be 188 beats per minute. So if you are running or cycling, and it's safe to do so, you can dial in your cadence. We will be right back in just a little under three minutes.

Unknown Speaker

Welcome back everyone.

Unknown Speaker

Maybe I was caught by this quote as it seems that empathy is central to the Positive Intelligence mental fitness model?

Unknown Speaker

It seems to be the starting point for everything.

Scott Lewis

It is the master key, John. In the Positive Intelligence framework, Empathy is the foundational Sage power. It’s the gateway.

Scott Lewis

For me, I would find it hard to access the other four Sage powers—Explore, Innovate, Navigate, and Activate—without first generating the calm, positive emotional state that empathy-for-self provides.

Scott Lewis

Specifically, it's the essential tool for quieting your primary Saboteur, the Judge. The Judge thrives on criticising yourself, others, and your circumstances. Empathy is its kryptonite.

Emily Carter

And for an athlete, that Judge is relentless. It’s the voice criticising poor food choices, a slow split time, a missed workout or a bad race result.

Emily Carter

Dialling down the Judge is why empathy has to start with yourself. Self-empathy is the critical first step.

Unknown Speaker

Okay, can we please pause there? Because I think we've just walked right up to the elephant in the room.

Scott Lewis

Ok,

Scott Lewis

Is it a big one?

Unknown Speaker

Yes, THAT big one.

Unknown Speaker

Empathy for a struggling teammate, for an injured person on the road... I get it. It’s noble. It feels right.

Unknown Speaker

But 'empathy for self'... Emily, I have to be honest, a lifetime of British upbringing and my own inner wiring immediately screams, "That's dangerously self-indulgent!" Maybe there's an element of that in Charlie Kirk's objection?

Unknown Speaker

It feels soft. It sounds like making excuses or letting yourself off the hook. And I know I'm not alone in feeling that.

Emily Carter

John, I am so incredibly glad you said that out loud. Because that is the number one lie the Saboteurs tell every single high-performing athlete I have ever coached. And I've told it to myself a million times.

Emily Carter

We have to be crystal clear about the difference here, because it’s everything.

Emily Carter

"Indulgence" is getting a flat tire 10 miles into the bike leg of your A-race. You fix it, but you spend the next 46 miles brooding, feeling sorry for yourself, telling yourself a story about how your day is ruined and how unlucky you are.

Emily Carter

That's your Victim saboteur having a pity party on wheels.

Emily Carter

That is useless.

Scott Lewis

That's wallowing.

Emily Carter

That IS wallowing!

Emily Carter

And it kills your performance. Now, self-empathy is completely different.

Emily Carter

It's getting that same flat tire, and in that moment on the side of the road, you allow yourself to feel the gut-punch of frustration. You say to yourself, "This is infuriating and I am so disappointed."

Emily Carter

You give yourself 60 seconds of grace to feel the feeling, because it's real.

Emily Carter

But then—because you aren't wasting all your precious mental energy beating yourself up—your mind is clear enough to ask the powerful, game-changing question: "Okay. What can I do from this exact moment forward to have the best possible race?"

Emily Carter

You get back in the game faster, stronger, and with more focus than the person who is still telling themselves the sad story.

Scott Lewis

And John, your reaction is so common because our Judge Saboteur is incredibly deceptive.

Scott Lewis

It has convinced us that the harsh, critical voice is our high-performance coach.

Scott Lewis

But the science is unequivocal on this. Beating yourself up floods your system with cortisol. It puts your brain and body into a threat state. And in that state, you can't access the creative, strategic parts of your mind. You literally can't solve problems well. You play small.

Unknown Speaker

So the self-criticism actually prevents the very improvement it's supposedly trying to create.

Scott Lewis

Precisely. This is the "oxygen mask on first" principle applied to mental performance.

Scott Lewis

A brain at war with itself is an oxygen-deprived brain.

Scott Lewis

Practicing self-compassion is like putting on the mask.

Scott Lewis

It calms your nervous system, brings your clear-thinking Sage brain online, and allows you to be objective and resourceful.

Scott Lewis

It's not about letting yourself off the hook; it’s about giving yourself the actual tools to fix the bike and get back in the race.

Emily Carter

Yes! You are more use to yourself, and therefore to others, when you're not in an internal fight.

Emily Carter

Indulgence has you quit the race mentally.

Emily Carter

Self-empathy has you rebound, learn, and sometimes, finish stronger and prouder than you ever thought possible.

Emily Carter

You cannot play "full out" if you're using half your energy to defeat yourself.

Scott Lewis

Far too many of us, especially high-achievers, have this deeply flawed belief that being hard on ourselves is what motivates us. That shame is a good fuel for improvement.

Unknown Speaker

The "no pain, no gain" philosophy applied to our inner world?

Scott Lewis

Precisely. But it's a lie. Stress hormones (like cortisol) actually shut down the creative, problem-solving parts of your brain.

Scott Lewis

Shame doesn't motivate; it paralyses.

Emily Carter

It triggers your other Saboteurs. The Victim gives up. The Avoider procrastinates. You get stuck in a cycle of feeling bad about feeling bad.

Emily Carter

I always tell my athletes, when you've had a setback, when you're hurting, that is not the time for more punishment.

Emily Carter

That is the time for active recovery.

Emily Carter

If you sprain your ankle, you don’t stand there screaming at it and try to keep running. You stop. You give it care so it can heal and you can come back stronger. Self-compassion is the mental and emotional equivalent of that.

Unknown Speaker

So is there a difference between self-compassion and self-empathy?

Scott Lewis

That's a great question.

Scott Lewis

They ARE deeply connected.

Scott Lewis

The way to think about it is that self-compassion is the practice, and self-empathy is the result.

Scott Lewis

Self-compassion is the active, intentional work.

Scott Lewis

It's doing the reps. Every time you catch your Judge saboteur beating you up and you consciously choose to be kind to yourself instead, that is a rep of self-compassion.

Emily Carter

It’s the training.

Scott Lewis

Right. And self-empathy is the resulting strength.

Scott Lewis

It’s the developed skill of being able to sit with your own difficult emotions—disappointment, frustration, sadness—with a calm, non-judgmental presence.

Emily Carter

It's like building your aerobic base. You don't just go out and run a marathon. You do the consistent, daily runs. That's the practice of self-compassion. The resulting ability to hold a strong pace for 26.2 miles is your aerobic capacity. That's your self-empathy. You can't have one without the other.

Unknown Speaker

So if this is a skill, a muscle we can build, is there a "how-to" guide?

Scott Lewis

There is. The researcher Kristin Neff has done foundational work in this area. She breaks self-compassion down into three concrete, actionable pillars.

Scott Lewis

The first is Self-Kindness versus Self-Judgment.

Scott Lewis

This is the obvious one. It’s the conscious choice to be warm and understanding with yourself when you fail, instead of berating yourself.

Scott Lewis

The second is Common Humanity versus Isolation.

Scott Lewis

This is the crucial step of recognising that suffering and failure are part of the shared human experience. It directly counters that Victim saboteur feeling that "this only happens to me."

Scott Lewis

And the third is Mindfulness versus Over-Identification.

Scott Lewis

This is the practice of observing your negative thoughts and emotions with a balanced perspective, without getting swept away by them. In our terms, it’s noticing your Saboteurs are active without getting hijacked.

Emily Carter

Let’s make that real for an athlete.

Emily Carter

You just finished a half-marathon and missed your goal time by five minutes.

Emily Carter

You feel that wave of disappointment.

Emily Carter

The old way is to let the Judge take over: "I'm a failure. I didn't train hard enough."

Emily Carter

The new way, using Neff's model, would be:

Emily Carter

First, Mindfulness.

Emily Carter

You pause. You notice the feeling. "Okay, this is disappointment.

Emily Carter

I feel it in my stomach. My thoughts are negative.

Emily Carter

I'm just going to observe this."

Emily Carter

Second, Common Humanity.

Emily Carter

You connect your experience to others. "Every runner I admire has had bad races.

Emily Carter

This is a normal part of the sport. This feeling is universal for anyone who sets big goals."

Emily Carter

The isolation just dissolves.

Emily Carter

And third, Self-Kindness.

Emily Carter

You actively soothe yourself. You might even physically put a hand on your heart and say what you'd say to a friend: "That was a really tough race. It's okay to be disappointed.

Emily Carter

You put in a huge effort, and I'm proud of you for finishing."

Scott Lewis

And by following those three steps, you actively process the setback. You turn a damaging Saboteur moment into a resilient, Sage-led experience.

Unknown Speaker

I should say that there is a very sound neurochemical basis for Kirstin's use of physicality in self-compassion and you can find out more about oxytocin if you search back a few episodes.

Unknown Speaker

Before we close I want to go back to my own reaction to that Charlie Kirk quote.

Unknown Speaker

I’ll admit, it really triggered me. And I knew nothing else about the man, but these few words alone sparked a very strong, negative response. Why is that? And what would a PQ-aligned approach have been in that moment?

Scott Lewis

That's a great question, John.

Scott Lewis

Your strong reaction was likely because the quote represented a profound values-clash.

Scott Lewis

It’s clear from our chat that we all see empathy as a core value for connection and kindness. Mr Kirk's statement was a direct assault on that value.

Scott Lewis

Instantly that activates your own Judge Saboteur, whose job is to spot what is "wrong" in any situation.

Scott Lewis

That's what a trigger is: a Saboteur hijacking.

Unknown Speaker

So if I had been there, face-to-face with him, what might I have done?

Scott Lewis

I'd offer that if you were speaking to Mr. Kirk you wouldn't be motivated just to win the argument. Rather you'd be committed to staying centred in your own Sage.

Scott Lewis

You might think of it as a three-step process.

Scott Lewis

First, the moment you feel that annoyance or triggering that's your cue for Self-Command.

Scott Lewis

Before you speak, you take 10 seconds for a few PQ Reps.

Scott Lewis

Discreetly rub two fingers together, focusing on the sensation. This quiets your survival brain and brings your Sage brain, your prefrontal cortex, online. It allows you to respond instead of react.

Unknown Speaker

So, manage my own internal state first.

Scott Lewis

Always. Then, with your Sage in command, go and EXPLORE.

Scott Lewis

Get curious, not furious.

Scott Lewis

Instead of seeing an adversary, you might ask internally, "What is he really afraid of here? What experience has led him to believe empathy is dangerous? What is he trying to protect?"

Scott Lewis

This shifts him from a caricature villain into a complex human-being operating from his own Saboteur-led fears.

Scott Lewis

Which, after all, makes him exactly the same as the rest of us.

Unknown Speaker

And the third step?

Scott Lewis

Ironically, you want to apply empathy!!

Scott Lewis

Be motivated to understand what it's like to be in Charlie's shoes.

Scott Lewis

So we're back to Stephen Covey: "First seek to understand ..."

Scott Lewis

So that's more Exploring.

Scott Lewis

Ask a Sage-powered question to build a bridge.

Scott Lewis

You might say something like, "That's an interesting distinction you make. Could you tell me more about the 'damage' you've seen empathy do? I'm curious to understand your experience with it."

Scott Lewis

That question validates that you've listened and uses curiosity to gently probe the belief.

Scott Lewis

You don't have to agree with his view, but you keep the conversation open, and most importantly, you maintain your own inner peace.

Scott Lewis

You stay out of his pool and on the deck.

Unknown Speaker

It strikes me that this approach is exactly what’s missing in our wider public discourse. This applies everywhere, from deeply polarised communities in America or my own home in Northern Ireland. Even right down to the family dinner table.

Scott Lewis

You're absolutely right. At its core, deep polarisation is a mass Saboteur hijacking.

Scott Lewis

Entire groups get entrenched in the Judge Saboteur's narrative: "We are right and good; they are wrong and bad."

Scott Lewis

In that state, there is no curiosity, no compassion, no creativity. It's just two highly activated survival brains trying to win.

Emily Carter

And it’s why so many families have "off-limits" topics at the dinner table. Because everyone knows they will trigger a fight.

Emily Carter

But if just one person can practice this… if one person can stay "on the deck" and, instead of stating their own opinion, ask a Sage-powered question like, "Help me understand what makes that so important to you…" they can change the entire dynamic.

Emily Carter

It shifts the interaction from a debate, which is a war between your Saboteurs and my Saboteurs to a dialogue, which is a connection between Sages.

Emily Carter

So, when people say we need more empathy, what they mean is we need much, much, much more empathy.

Emily Carter

But it has to be a disciplined, courageous empathy. The kind that's strong enough to quiet our own inner demons so we can see the humanity in our perceived enemies.

Unknown Speaker

We are nearing the end of our time. Emily, as our heart and soul on the podcast. I want to give you the final word.

Unknown Speaker

For our athletes listening right now, maybe they are driving to the pool or heading out for a run... what is the bottom line?

Unknown Speaker

Why should they consciously work to develop this skill of empathy?

Emily Carter

Okay, for every athlete listening, here it is.

Emily Carter

Consciously developing empathy will fundamentally upgrade your performance and your enjoyment of your sport in five key ways.

Emily Carter

One: It supercharges your resilience.

Emily Carter

Self-empathy is the ultimate antidote to your Judge. It allows you to bounce back from a bad session or race faster and stronger because you're not wasting energy fighting an internal war.

Emily Carter

Two: It optimises your physical recovery.

Emily Carter

Empathy helps you listen to your body's signals with kindness. You’ll know when to push and when to rest, preventing injury and burnout, which leads to a longer, healthier athletic career.

Emily Carter

Three: It builds unbreakable team bonds.

Emily Carter

Empathy for others is the glue that holds a training group together. That support network will literally pull you through the toughest moments of a season.

Emily Carter

Four: It makes you more coachable.

Emily Carter

When you can empathise with your coach's perspective, you see feedback not as an attack, but as a gift. This creates a high-trust relationship that accelerates your path to your goals.

Emily Carter

And finally, number five, and this is the one that brings it all together: You will connect to your own unique 'Why.'

Emily Carter

When you operate from a place of self-empathy, the choices you make all come from a place of what you truly value, not from what your Judge is screaming at you to do. You might eat better, you might take longer recovery times, you might drop a race, you might even drop a coach to find one that suits your own needs. You might actually choose to work harder and challenge yourself even more - the point is that it's YOU doing the choosing based on what you care and value most. You shift from being driven by fear to being led by your purpose. And that is the most powerful fuel of all.

Unknown Speaker

Well, this was an unexpected topic and, of course, I'm sorry for the circumstances but I've really benefitted from our deeper examination of Empathy.

Unknown Speaker

I think I have gratitude for Charlie Kirk giving me the gift of this exploration. With your help and all the slightly different perspectives we looked at it seems like, if anything, I've actually undervalued empathy's importance in a successful, happy and fulfilled life.

Unknown Speaker

Thank you both so very much for exploring it with me.

Unknown Speaker

If you haven't taken a Saboteur Assessment to uncover your own unique saboteur profile then please head over to MindFitAthlete.Com forward-slash "DISCOVER" and we'll set you up with an assessment invite with the option of a free 30minute 1 on 1 debrief.

Emily Carter

And if you'd like to not just learn more but experience more then we have a whole week working on Empathy during our Foundation course.

Emily Carter

Find more information about that on our website: MindFitAthlete.Com forward slash FOUNDATIONS

Unknown Speaker

For now, from all of us here at The MindFit Athlete, thank you for listening.

Scott Lewis

Take care and happy training.

Scott Lewis

I've been Scott.

Emily Carter

And I've been Emily.

Emily Carter

Bye bye everyone.